Why is the memory of John Paul II so important? How much did his pontificate change the Church and its critics are wrong?
Włodzimierz Rędzioch: – You started your career at the Vatican in the year, which is known in the history as the “year of three Popes”…
Valentina Alazraki: – The death of Paul VI made me stay in Rome. Then there was his funeral, followed by the first conclave, the election of John Paul I and his sudden death, and then, in October, the second conclave. And so, this way I became a witness of the Cardinal Karol Wojtyła’s election. My supervisors from the Mexican television immediately realized that this was a revolutionary event, so they asked me to be in Rome. Especially since John Paul II soon announced his first trip beyond the borders of Italy – to my country, to Mexico. Therefore, fate wanted me to remain in Rome…
– Was this great change in the Church expected? The change of the election of John Paul II, a Cardinal not from Italy?
– Definitely not.At the first conclave in 1978, there were talks about two “papabili”, that is, about Cardinal Siri and Benelli, but finally Luciani was elected.
– During the second conclave did The Vatican experts took into consideration the election of Cardinal Wojtyła?
– The name of Wojtyła was not mentioned among “papabili”.Only a few journalists took that choice into consideration.
– So, also for you this was a surprise – the election of an unknown Cardinal.
– Right away, I went to Poland, to visit places related to life of Karol Wojtyła, such as Wadowice and Kraków. I have interviewed people who knew him as a student, priest, bishop, and cardinal. These people also told me about his passion, which was poetry and theatre, but also about the special relation with the Jewish community – that was also the reason that I went to Auschwitz. Thanks to this I was able to talk about the different life experiences of the new bishop of Rome. Until that time, there was no Pope that was previously working as a laborer, who was an actor, who was skiing, kayaking, hiking in the mountains.
– And, how did you perceive Poland and the Poles?
– For the Poles, the election of the Archbishop of Krakow was a kind of miracle. People put all their hopes in John Paul II, both political – they hoped for liberation from communism regime; and religious – it was about religious freedom. It was the national, patriotic and religious pride of the fact that the Pole was elected as the Pope. I was able to better understand it when I went with him to Poland in 1979. I remember the holy Mass at the Victory Place (pl. Zwycięstwa) in Warsaw with millions of people, when the Pope imported to the Holy Spirit to change the face of the earth. It was a lightning speech that changed Poland and the world. I think that the Berlin Wall started to fall apart during this first pontifical pilgrimage to Poland.
– What were the reactions of people from outside Poland to the new Pope?
– We, Mexicans, look at John Paul II from the perspective of his pilgrimage to Mexico, especially the first one. Mexicans fell in love with the Pope – they considered him a person who broke many schemes and taboo, a man with great charism and goodness and, at the same time, progressive at the social platform. The Pope spoke about the rights of indigenous people, farmers and workers, and stressed that private property is charged with a social mortgage.
– Was there something that was particularly striking in the person of John Paul II?
– His powerful personality, charisma and great ability to communicate with people. With passing time, I was increasingly impressed by the fact that, on one hand, he had charisma, almost “sacredness”, and on the other hand, he emanated warmth, which made every person feel comfortable in his presence. He had the ability to adapt to every auditorium: youth, elderly, nuns, scientists, artists, bishops, etc. He also had a gift of explaining difficult concepts in a simple manner, even with a gesture. As nobody else, he knew how to use TV – the social media did not exist at that time yet. In the first part of his pontificate, the Pope appeared to me as a kind of crusader who, leaning on his pastor, traveled all over the world to proclaim human freedom and religious freedom, because he was convinced that the walls could be demolished by the virtue of faith. We, the journalists who were accompanying him, had the impression that we were witnessing the History – the one starting with a capital letter.
– Some are comparing John Paul II to St. Paul – the first great missionary of the Church…
– That is a fair comparison.John Paul II had that idea of the mission; he wanted to take the message of Christ to the most distant places on Earth. Once he told me that during his first pilgrimage to Mexico, he realized how his pontificate should look like – pilgrimage. In Mexico, he saw, millions of people standing along the roads, who of course, could not go to Rome to see him. That’s why he had to go to people.
– What from the Papal pilgrimages felt into your memory the most?
– I have thousands of images in my memory.I should go back to the first pilgrimage of John Paul II to Mexico, when he kissed this land. The Mexican people never forgot this gesture – the Holy Father how arrives, kneels and kisses their land! I remember the Pope in Poland at the Victory Place; the Pope with Mather Teresa in Calcutta at the home of dying people. I remember John Paul II visits in Africa, in Senegal, on the Gorée Island from which slaves were shipped. I remember him on Mount Nebo in Jordan, when as the new Moses he looked at the Promised Land. I remember as he was approaching – supported by the cane – the Wailing Wall to leave his own teat. I remember him in Cuba with Fidel, who participated in the holy Mass. I remember the World Youth Day in Manila, where there were so many people in history as never before – 3-4 million young people, and the Pope had to fly in a helicopter because he couldn’t pass by in the car. But, I have the strongest images from the last pilgrimages of John Paul II. First of all, Juan Diego’s canonization in the Basilica of Guadalupe, where it seemed that the Pope will die – Mexicans had never forgotten this extreme sacrifice of the Pope, who came to them in a very poor health, but wanted to say goodbye to Mexico by canonizing Juan Diego. I also remember John Paul II’s last trip to Lourdes, the moment he knelt down in the Grotto of Apparitions and could no longer stand up – Fr. Marini and Fr. Dziwisz had to help him.
– Some people are saying due to his often pilgrimages; he did not take care of the Curia and management of the Church. Do you agree with this statement?
– The mission was had his priority – he was less interested in Curia. John Paul II probably believed that at the historical moment the secularization and division of the world into two blocks, he had to be a missionary of the world. He was delegating other people to solve internal problems and he trusted his co-workers. Have they fulfilled their responsibilities – that’s another thing.
– John Paul II was seen by some groups as an anti-communist and conservative Pope, and for that reason he was criticized and even opposed… Did you feel this hostility against the Pope?
– Definitely there was criticism, but they were only published in newspapers, as there were no social networks, which today exacerbate, often disproportionately, every criticism. I saw this criticism, but above all, I saw the enormous love of millions of people around the world to John Paul II. I have in my memory his funeral – I think it was an extraordinary event in the history that will not happen again. Millions of people who came to Rome to say goodbye – then you were able to see how much the Pope “planted” in human hearts.
– On a daily basis, I meet people who have preserved faith – and some have even discovered a call to the priesthood or religious life – through the faith and testimony of John Paul II. Now, certain groups want to undermine the authority of the Church, denigrating John Paul II and insistently opposing him to the present Pope. Even in some Church groups, there are attempts to diminish the significance of the pontificate of Pope John Paul II and blame him for alleged scandals and mistakes. How are you experiencing this situation?
– With a great sorrow and pain. Never the positive heritage should be forgotten, and the pontificate of Pope John Paul II was truly a positive contribution to the life of the Church and millions of people in the world. Abandoning the cultivation of this inheritance is a big mistake. Especially today, in times of crisis of the Church, we must rediscover so many messages of John Paul II. I meet people who proudly call themselves “the generation of John Paul II,” and if today they are good Catholics and decent people, it is because they have acted accordingly to the teachings of the Pope. In my opinion, today we should even more appreciate all that John Paul II has done, for example; for young people and the family.
– In this context, I am struck by the statements made even by some Catholics about the need to make a revolution in the Church. After all, the revolution is needed when all what we have should be thrown away…
– The Church cannot disown the past by saying that it was not good. You can change something, but you need to preserve the whole good of the past period. The feelings that the vast majority of people have towards John Paul II show that the 26.5 years-long pontificate was very positive.
– The recent accusations against John Paul II relate to the abuse of minors by the clergy, as if the Pope did not react sufficiently to these crimes. You also spoke about this with Pope Francis. The greatest publicity had the abuse issue related to the founder of the Legion of Christ, Fr. Marcial Maciel. You also worked with the matter. What is opinion on this?
– I am convinced that John Paul II was not aware of the real alleges of abuse, related to the founder of the Legion of Christ. I am also convinced of this because of the Cardinal Ratzinger and then Benedict XVI behavior in relation to John Paul II. There were accusations that the Pope considered to be false because they were depicted as conspiracy against the Church. Also, Marcial Maciel sworn to him that all allegations are false. And, let us not forget that the Pope came from a country where false accusations were prepared in order to discredit or blackmail priests. It looks that only at the end of his life, Cardinal Ratzinger informed him of the seriousness of the accusations, and then the Pope gave him the authority to continue the investigation. This fact was confirmed by Pope Francis in the first interview with me. He said that John Paul II instructed Cardinal Ratzinger to continue the investigation. The second fact is that it was not the Pope who opposed Cardinal Ratzinger, but some of his colleagues. During the flight, Pope Francis told journalists about the meeting to which Cardinal Ratzinger brought all documentation related to Maciel. When, he left that meeting, he said that “the other side won.” But, John Paul II did not participate in that meeting! And this fact confirmed to me both: Pope Francis and Archbishop Sciclun, who was present at that meeting.
– What Cardinal Ratzinger was thinking about John Paul II evidently is reflected in the statements that he made during the interview with me: “The fact that John Paul II was holy, through the years of our cooperation, became ever more and more evident to me.” In your opinion, what the holiness of John Paul II is consisted of?
– I think that his holiness is united with his faith, the power of prayer, his great humanity. He was an honest and consistent person in his actions – there was no discrepancy between what he had said and what he did.
– At the beginning of the pontificate, Domenico Del Rio from La Repubblica was one of John Paul II’s critics.Many years later, when he was dying, he said very meaningful words: “If the flame of my faith has never extinguished, it is just because I have seen John Paul’s faith and I still believed.” Do you agree that, in fact, the greatest accomplishment of the Pope was to strength the faith of brothers that is what Jesus asked the Apostles?
– Absolutely, yes. John Paul II was a man of an extraordinary faith and he passed on to others an incredible strength. All that he has done “outside”, you can understand if you will look “inside” him, on his faith. And this faith was particularly evident when he celebrated a holy Mass. Seeing him in a private chapel, but also during public celebrations, we journalists, had the impression that he was completely absent, that he spoke with God or with Madonna. He always had a rosary with him, and a prayer was for him as the air he breathed.
– Who was John Paul II for you personally?
– John Paul II was not only a part of my professional life, but also my personal.The years of his long pontificate were also the most important years of my personal life, as I met my husband and set up a family – my daughters also met the Pope. All my personal memories are intertwined with the memories of John Paul II, who became my father, to whom I was connected. When he died, in my home, we experienced that as a death in the family, as if someone from our loved ones has died. For the last time I saw him three days before his death, on Wednesday, which was the day of the audience – he appeared in the window of his apartment. I was with a group of Mexicans who came to Rome, to the Pope. They told me, “the Pope has accompanied us through 26 years of our history, and now, when he is dying, we want to be close to him.” Other people, who came to Rome on the days of his agony and death, also were making the same statements. To this day, I miss him, not only as the Pope, but also as a person who has been in my life for more than a quarter of a century.
